Comments offensive and unnecessary
DEAR EDITOR:
I write in reference to a recent letter to the editor, ''Say a prayer and let God sort it out.''
It is not the letter I wish to address but the online comments that this letter generated - especially those comments from 4th Ward candidate for City Council Bob Cvengros.
As a former candidate for 4th Ward City Council and the first openly gay male to run for public office in Warren, I take offense and umbrage with the hatred and lack of respect he has shown to the city's LGBT community.
Also, several contributors to the online site have eluded to disturbing offensive remarks he may have made directed toward other minorities within the city.
Ward 4 has a larger LGBT community than any of the other wards, and it has businesses that contribute to the well being and growth of a struggling downtown.
There has been a strong, positive and productive ''gay'' presence in Warren since the early 1940s, and one of the nation's first gay establishment was located on Pine Avenue.
I have always been humbled by the overall respect and openness of the general public when I campaigned, volunteered or was asked to serve on any of the mayors' - both Hank Angelo and Mike O'Brien - committees.
As one who has worked closely with the police and fire departments; pastors and churches; community service groups and local charities, I am pleased that his obvious racism and bigotry is a reflection of the minority and not the majority of the populace of the City of Warren.
His election to city council would not be a positive or constructive dynamic in rebuilding and molding the future of Warren's growth from decay.
-- Tristan Hand, Northfield
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nativio289
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07-21-09 1:47 PM
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Unlucky brings up a great fact. That at one time, in most parts of this country, from colonial times up to 1967, marriage was defined as between a man and a woman of the SAME RACE. Ohio overturned its anti-miscegenation laws in 1887. Not one state overturned their similar laws until California in 1948.
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TBTBTB
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07-19-09 8:14 PM
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I love how the opinion that homosexuals want to be treated equally with others infringes on other people's rights. I guess those white Jim Crow southerners had a point after all.
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UneducatedDrone
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07-19-09 12:41 PM
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lol Beth yes, they filter out the word J.ews. (-:
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Eastsider1
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07-19-09 12:18 PM
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My goodness, such hate and fear mongering you people have...McCarthyism and Salem Witch hunts still alive and well in Warren. Read The Crucible and be ashamed.
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BethMacUSA
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07-19-09 11:25 AM
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**** = people of the JewishFaith - I guess we are not allowed to call them by their shorten version??? Strange!
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BethMacUSA
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07-19-09 11:24 AM
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Tristan: The Gay and Lesbian Alliance wants to silence ALL religous speach against them. They are the ones who are full of hate. It is ok for YOU to speak YOUR mind, but no one else is allowed to believe what their faith teaches them. Why is ok for YOU to believe that your life style is OK but the Christians and the **** are not? Hate speach legislation is being tucked into military funding bills so that it will pass! WHY? Because it's the only way to get it passed! I HATE NO ONE! GOD (capitalized) is Love. I believe that YOU have NO MORE RIGHTS than I have. Marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not married but upon my death, I have an executor - I have a point person that my physican and St Joe's can contact to speak with about my illness! YOU HAVE THE SAME RIGHT! And Unless your spouse grants you in writing, do not assume "married" people have automatic privlidges! They also must sign authority to their spouse! SO what RIGHTS are being voilated?
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JoeCool
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07-19-09 11:12 AM
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Now you did it, soulman...Tristan will have to post one more time...they always have to trump you with the final word and be on top...
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soulman
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07-19-09 10:22 AM
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God will have the last word on this matter as we all must give account one day for every word, deed and thought before a holy God. Barry Goldwater is mistaken in his famous quote, most of our laws such as ones concerning murder, rape, and theft are moral ones with roots stemming back to the old testimate. In the bible it is clear that their will be corporate judgements over communities such as the judgement of copernaum for rejecting the kingdom of God, Luke 10:12, As recent as 1972 homosexality was considered a mental ilness now sodomites want to become a protected class which could have ramifications encroaching on the free speech of Christians. Note to Josh Nativio: the God I serve is spelled with a big " G". God is clear on this issue. Romans 1, ties the giving over to homosexual*****into a society spiraling into depravity and a debased and reprobated mindset which is moral insanity. God help us all!
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Tristan
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07-19-09 8:36 AM
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My last word on this post will be two quotes from two of my heroes. Barry Goldwater: "You can not legislate morality." Judge Learned Hand (yes I'm related) often call this Country's first Free Speech Judge: "When Liberty dies in the hearts of men, no constitution can bring it back."
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UneducatedDrone
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07-19-09 7:58 AM
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lol nat, I think that little red line is a Firefox thing. I've never seen it when using IE, so depending on what browser people use, they may or may not have it. (-:
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TBTBTB
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07-19-09 2:59 AM
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I've avoided this letter to allow Bob to come out and say what he's been saying all along. Thank you Bob for really starting to let those true colors come through. Tristan, I really appreciate you writing this letter, because apparently the fact that I don't live in Bob's Ward means I'm not qualified to say he's a bigot. I REALLY wish the Trib would pull his comments, ALL OF THEM (the deleted ones as well which are floating on a server somewhere,) and put them in the paper or at least on the internet. It'd give the community a real chance to see this candidate.
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nativio289
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07-19-09 1:54 AM
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Well, Raiderin, thanks a lot. I think that, at best, conversations like this, when conducted with respect relative to what one gives another (I give what I get when 'talking' on here in terms of anger and irreverence and stupidity), added with some sense and some humor, can open eyes just a little. Or make other viewpoints a bit more understandable...And as lame as it sounds, maybe, just maybe, in our little person to person interactions on these silly boards, some sort of common ground can be found and maybe we can all be a little better off. But, honestly, sometimes I think I might just enjoy mixing it up...
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RaiderinWesterville
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07-19-09 1:31 AM
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Nativo - I think you just like mixing it up on here :) For all we know you could be a conservative Republican Pastor who just likes to argue the unpopular view to make everyone mad :) Computer keybpards at 50 paces! I will never agree with most of what you write but you do say it well and with passion.
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nativio289
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07-19-09 12:26 AM
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And it is about religion so long as god is dragged into this to justify hating, judging or infringing on the rights of gay folks. I would have a bit more respect if people just said 'I think its gross' and 'yuck' and 'I just don't understand the appeal' before saying 'god considers them abominations'...
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nativio289
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07-19-09 12:24 AM
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Well, hey, many don't understand how giving full rights to others infringes on yours, but that's an argument that folks will be having for decades to come. "Asking for your own set of right is an infringement on myself and others." Tell that to a black person in the fifties, or a woman before suffrage or a jewish person in many colonies throughout the the 1600s and 1700s (they did not have the right to hold office) or tell that to a non-land owning white who wanted to vote during that era. Its either freedom and equal rights for all, or stop waving that flag. Taking away from one group cheapens the whole idea of 'America'. Those are my thoughts, which I am equally entitled to.
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BobCvengros
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07-19-09 12:07 AM
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I will slow down and take the time to go back and correct the spelling, thank you. However, this issue has gotten way off track. This is not about religion or politics. We may as well have this dicussion in a bar. This was a matter of my personal choice & beliefs. I could even make jokes such as, I watched the ballgame tonight & the Indians "blew" another one. People have a right to live their lives as they choose, but do not do it at my expense or the expense of others. Asking for your own set of right is an infringement on myself and others. Also please, never involve our children.
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nativio289
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07-18-09 11:41 PM
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And heck, some morons like myself spell it 'sabbeth' instead of sabbath! They are so tired and typing so fast, that they even ignore the little red 'misspelling' line!
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UneducatedDrone
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07-18-09 11:38 PM
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gros, nobody will take you seriously if you can't spell, or even make the effort to clean up your typos, lol. (-:
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nativio289
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07-18-09 11:04 PM
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oops, my very common and not offensive at all name for the jewish people has been censored. And in case jewish is censored, I am referring to the Hebrew faith.
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nativio289
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07-18-09 11:03 PM
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And, obviously, you are entitled to call whatever day of rest and prayer the 'Sabbeth' that you like! And yeah, I've heard some stories that would chill your blood regarding how folks have, even within the past ten-twenty years, been given the cold shoulder by not only various council-types, administrations, and community development group types when they make overtures to establish or start a business downtown.
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nativio289
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07-18-09 10:59 PM
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Ah---That is a matter of some debate. Jesus was crucified on a Friday, rose on Sunday and rested on Saturday. That, coupled with the old testament Saturday day of rest, allows for some to consider Saturday the 'true Sabbeth'. Regardless, and a few hundred million **** consider the Sabbeth to be Saturday. I realize that Sunday is the day of prayer for non-jewish types, but for many now and for a lot longer a span of time, Saturday was the Sabbeth. Nice try though. And again, I brought those people and their establishments into this because you seemed to imply that a street that houses two successful businesses that actually bring people downtown, as well as the Trumbull Art Gallery, should have been torn down instead of Main Street. I could care less whatever experiences you had there. Many have positive experiences there.
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OutsideTheBox
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07-18-09 7:13 PM
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..and then you get the Mayor as the cherry on top.
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OutsideTheBox
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07-18-09 7:11 PM
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This is what cracks me up... I couldn't care less about what one's lifestyle is. I couldn't care less about personal beliefs..Everyone is scrambling to grab a little bit of power in their "ward." Why is it that every councilperson or to-be councilperson never uses the words "my city" or "our city"? Everyone wants to feel important for the people they represent and just run into brick walls with it. A big business going to a different ward? Oh boo hoo hoo - Who cares - At least it's in Warren. The petty squabbling in this City administration is pathetic, embarassing, and childish. God forbid we could actually have a city management machine where all the gears turn correctly and the thing actually work. 11 councilpersons for a city the size, shape, and smell of a turd, and none of them have a clue as to what the city needs - only what they want. How very, very sad.
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BobCvengros
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07-18-09 6:25 PM
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The Horsehoe is located at 206 E. Market St. Also, tody is not the Sabbath as you have indicated perviously, to me the Sabbath would be tomorrow. I will also agee that the Horsehoe is a nice place but not one that I frequent, since I do not go to bars. Also to simplify things for you, about 5-6 years ago myself & 2 others were conducting surveys in the downtown area (includind Pine St.) when we were barred from his establishment because we had been inside the other bars on Pine St., conducting buisness, (surveys in the buisness community about how changes have hurt their establishments). This was prior to his remodeling. Back to the Mall, Warren blew it big time, and Council is still doing it.
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Billyboy
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07-18-09 6:11 PM
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To be honest I personally wouldn't want to be in the Mall business. Cripes I haven't been there since Christmas. How do they stay in business?
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