No charges for LaBrae booster
Warren councilwoman accused of disrupting school board meetingBy BILL RODGERS Tribune Chronicle
WARREN - A Warren city councilwoman will not go to court to answer claims that she shouted literary quotes during a LaBrae Board of Education meeting.
A Warren prosecutor refused to file charges against Councilwoman Sue Hartman, D-7th Ward, but she recommended the Board of Education keep an officer handy after Monday's rambunctious meeting.
"It just didn't cross that line," Prosecutor Traci Timko Rose said Wednesday. "If it's just based on yelling differences of opinion, I don't know if that rises to the level of disrupting a public meeting."
Board members Amie Crowder and Debra Roth met - though at least one other board member dissented - with Timko Rose to file a complaint against Hartman, claiming that she disrupted a public meeting by shouting "For whom the bell tolls!" and would not be silenced despite repeated warnings from the board.
Hartman said she was not the person who yelled the John Donne/Ernest Hemmingway quote and said she thought that the meeting was over when she approached the board.
She was on her way out of the building when police arrived.
Hartman could not be reached for comment Wednesday.
Crowder said she now wants the whole thing to blow over.
"We thought we would extend an olive branch," she said.
However, Crowder said they would "paper trail this" for the future.
There has been heavy attendance at Board of Education meetings this summer over a divided board not filling a vacant music instructor position and problems with trying to hire a marching band director on a supplemental contract through football season.
The district sent Hartman a cease and desist letter in July, accusing her of calling marching band director candidates to dissuade them from taking the open position. Hartman said she just wanted to talk to the candidates about the parent's concerns for the band.
At Monday's meeting, the board continued more issues with the marching band and accepted the sudden resignation of Superintendent Ron Joseph.
Timko Rose said there would be problems in prosecuting a charge of disrupting a public meeting that the two board members wanted. She said the gist of the law was that business would be unable to go on at the meeting because of the disruption. She also said there are first amendment and sunshine law issues that could cause a problem if the case were tried.
Crowder claimed she could file the complaint on her own because she is the board president. Board member Russell Sewell disagrees, stating that this would only cause more trouble in the district and hurt chances of passing a 3 mill renewal levy in the fall.
"The board president can only act if we direct her to act. She has no more power than any other board member. This concerns me," he said.
Sewell said he thought the meeting was over himself when someone called the police on Hartman.
Warren Township Trustee Kay Anderson said she attended the meeting and called police dispatch prior to the tiff with the councilwoman. She said the meeting was getting out of hand and an officer would attend meetings from now on.
"You just put police protection where you have a problem," Anderson said.
She said that the afternoon shift has one full-time officer and one part-time officer on duty.
Anderson was not sure whether the district would be responsible for paying the officer.
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Yittlegirl
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09-03-08 9:59 PM
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What kind of example was that? I have to believe that if there was one, there was more. We as adults should be setting examples for our kids, not being examples of bad behavior. The kids that are left in the marching band, are compasionate and feel sad for their friends, There is no reason these kids can't come back. If everyone works together, our band can be what it was, or even better than it was.
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Yittlegirl
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09-03-08 9:56 PM
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Max Shepard. I respect your opinion, but here's a question I pose to you. If all the kids decided to silently protest, as you say, then we would have no marching band period. Do you really think there would be anymore of an outcry then there has already been? That would be the end. These kids are keeping the band alive, it will rebuild it, and it will get stronger. People need to start supporting them more vocally. And while there is nothing wrong with silently protesting as you say, there is something wrong with bad behavior, even it it is what you think is supporting a good cause. Now my son is marching, been there everyday, and yet there were rumors flying that the band director was swearing at the kids, or swearing in front of the kids. There was no swearing going along. And what about writing a nasty letter aobut the new band director to the board when you never attending marching band once. One letter was written, by a good kid, who I am sure was prompted by a parren
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MaxShepherd
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09-03-08 1:52 PM
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1) Thanks to those of you whom have posted. Your perspectives are very much appreciated! I have been very fortunate to have participated fully in all of the programs my high school band had to offer for the full duration. I was also fortunate to have spent 7 yrs. in the Warren Jr. Military Band. My parents contributed considerable time and effort to both organizations while holding down full time jobs. The benefits of participating in such well organized and successful programs have been enormous. Unless you have had significant exposure as a band member or parent, it is difficult to comprehend the full positive impact participation in such organizations rewards. My wife and myself both are pleased to be able to contribute as band booster members and will do everything possible to support the band members whether they participate in marching band or not.
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MaxShepherd
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09-03-08 1:50 PM
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2) We have spent considerable time listening to board members, teachers, principals, band students/parents, and community members, in an effort to get the facts and comprehend all sides of this mess. We have graciously lived in this community for 11 years and moved here primarily from facts obtained from well informed, competent, individuals. People spoke very highly of the school system and our community. Real estate agencies touted "Labrae Schools" in their listings. Faculty members spoke highly of administration, board members, and community, and vice-versa. Until recently, the Labrae School System has exceeded our expectations. I have sadly, however, witnessed this change for the worse. With what exposure I have had to the situation, information painstakingly gathered, and personal experience with the benefits of youth band participation, here is my take on things.
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MaxShepherd
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09-03-08 1:48 PM
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3) We are all personally observing "the systematic dismantling of the Labrae School System". We have one power crazed individual railroading their view of how things should be down the throats of the community against the wishes of her constituents. This individual has successfully pushed out a very competent, proven, and compassionate board president. She has been successfully "grinding an ax" by inserting board members that are unconditionally loyal to her cause and eliminating those who oppose her. (RJ). The people being trampled on and eliminated are those of whom were largely responsible for the positive reputation, and immense successes Labrae has achieved with limited resources. She has driven a wedge between faculty, administration, and community, thriving on the dissent and attention her efforts have caused with no regard for the well being of our students.
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MaxShepherd
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09-03-08 1:46 PM
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4) Given all the data and bean-counter perspectives, intentionally undermining a program of consistent participation growth and strong openenrollment attraction makes no sense what so ever, even from a position of fiscal responsibility. The only logical explanation is the ax-grinding theory and an existing personal vendetta against key members, past and present, of said program (band), including individuals simply in support of. We have up until recently enjoyed the benefits of a school system that was successfully attracting good people to the Labrae community. Our declining enrollment, moral, and reputation coincides directly with the arrival of AC and her subsequent two henchmen (Mrs. Dump and Mr.BB). We need to put aside our differences, sincerely listen to informed, involved (past and present) individuals, and take swift and effective action to put Labrae back on the positive track it was on before the arrival of aforementioned individuals.
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MaxShepherd
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09-03-08 1:43 PM
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Taxman, Yittlegirl, and burgmom, thank you for your response and input. I do respect your positions. It is my hope that you may do the same for me. I believe this is an unfortunate lesson in life our kids areexperiencing. I hope my son will learn to actively participate in correcting wrongs created by others and not just stand by with his head in the sand feeling helpless. I hope he will see that by gathering facts and competent, sound data, knowledge of how to right things by working within the system, peaceful protest, petitioning, voting, and voicing your opinion, one can bring about positive results. The kids not wanting to participate (along with the teachers) are doing their part in correcting this situation by peaceful protest. They are not back-stabbers. I personally witnessed the tears of said back-stabbers as they watched, loyally from the sidelines, their beloved band attempt to perform. I saw tears in the eyes of booster members as well.
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MaxShepherd
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09-03-08 1:41 PM
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In regards to my original post trying to hit people over the head with the ramifications of these unnecessary cuts, as stated, "under the circumstances our kids did great" clearly states this is no reflection upon our students abilities or choice of participating/protesting. I presented a blunt, factual comparison of performance level as a direct result of these cuts. Please do not*****on my neck and tell me it is raining. Our kids are intelligent enough to know the difference between pity and praise, do not do it to them either! Many thanks to those of you who have bothered to hear me out!!!!
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Yittlegirl
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09-02-08 7:12 PM
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Amen again to Tax Man, and Burgmom. I get so upset when I hear people trashing the band, the kids, and their new director. They did nothing wrong,they don't deserve this. You people should be ashamed of yourselves, They did phonomenal Friday night, and thats with two weeks, and not all the kids being at every practive. Some of the kids are in sports and they managed, and still marched on Friday night. Wow, can you imagine that they did both. But I'm getting off track. I'm sure our band will have a fantastic season! Can't wait to see the garbage cans!!! (I'm saying that in support of the kids in case anyone reads into that differently!!!?
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ChinChin
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09-02-08 7:12 PM
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MAXSHEPHERD, you rock.
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TaxMan
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09-02-08 5:36 PM
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Bottom line here is that this is all going to blow over in time. It always does. The kids will slowly come back to the marching band and the numbers will grow. All it needs is for the people that support the band and director to continue to do so, and those that don't, find something else for your kids to do. As for the quantity of the band leading to quality, I'm not sure there is a direct correlation. Given time, this little group is going to get comfortable and gain confidence which will lead to their quality. I personally am using this situation to teach my kids about life. My kids are learning who they can trust and count on, and who the two faced, back turning, quitters are. There is a saying that the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree. Looking at the kids that abandoned their friends and classmates, I must say that in some cases it's the same behavior their parents exhibit.
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burgmom
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09-02-08 5:14 PM
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And as for you Vik86, I hope you children NEVER have to deal with something NEW in their lives because I guess if it isn't the same old same old they can’t take it. I just wish that those of you who couldn’t hake it would stop trying to ruin it for the students that have stayed and who have been raised to give people a chance and be able to adjust to new things. You all need to stop you b******* and do something more with your lives but sitting on here and complaining about not getting your way!!!
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burgmom
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09-02-08 5:13 PM
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I take offence to you Max, with 6 full days to practice the kids were very good, SHAME ON YOU and also Loinfan, you go to far in your personnel attacks, you should be ashamed and I hope no one treats your children with the disrespect that I have seen you write on here. I guess some of you have never seen the great Warren Harding marching band in some of there greatest performances they too use garbage cans, these kids are excited! You need to stop with the negativity. If you don’t like it don’t watch, but how DARE you talk about those kids like that!!! You are some pieces of work!!! I do not blame the 3 board members, the problem started with Mr. J not rehiring 4 elementary teachers, for classes that kids are mandated to take, so the board wanted to try and save more of OUR money by seeing if the school could get by with 3 music teachers, if these teachers are so great they should be able to do this job no problem. Champion does, are they better than us??
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MaxShepherd
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09-02-08 2:57 PM
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Viking1995, did you watch any of the marching band performances last year???? Yes, under the circumstances, the kids did great, but in comparison to last years level of performance, the show was pathetic!!! And yes, we can thank the three Ammigos(stooges) for that drastic decline.
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viking1995
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08-29-08 11:25 PM
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Football team was great as well. It was a wonderful night for Labrae. Band, Football, and a new acting superintendent.
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RAW091
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08-29-08 11:19 PM
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So the band was great wonderful. How was the football team?
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viking1995
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08-29-08 10:16 PM
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Wow the band was great tonight. The kids were great. Kudos to them and the NEW BAND DIRECTOR.Thank you to the three ammigos.
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viking86
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08-29-08 4:00 PM
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yittlegirl-do not say The kids and make it sound like all of them are disappointed in mr. s because a know a great many kids that support mr. s and were ecstatic to see him back in the band room this week. They were comforted by the routine of band as they have always known it and the professionalism he brings to his class. He has demonstrated strength through all of this. Much more than I probably could of handled.
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lionfan
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08-29-08 7:55 AM
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yittlegirl- before you speak get your facts straight! You really have no idea what you are rambling on about..
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reader
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08-29-08 7:53 AM
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yittle...I wouldn't know Mr. S to see him. So when I say what I am going to say it is purely speculation. He probably was advised by an attorney not to attend the meetings. If he would attend, people would want to talk about the situation with him. That may not be in his best interest because things get twisted as they are passed from one to another. He works there. One teacher was told she may get a reprimand for talking to the board. So in this situation with this board, what do you think the repercussions would be if he attended? Would it impact his job? Would his attendance make the situation worse for the situation and kids.
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Yittlegirl
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08-29-08 7:44 AM
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Chin Chin, They kids are disapointed in Mr. S., because he never once came to these meetings and spoke out. He sent his wife, sister, and wrote a letter. He wanted it his way or the high way. As we can all see, you can't always get your way.
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RAW091
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08-28-08 11:26 PM
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Now all LaBrae can be known for is it's position as the "Running Joke of Trumbull County 2008."
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lionfan
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08-28-08 11:17 PM
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How great the program WAS is the key here... Now I hear we get to listen to garbage cans! Do you think that maybe Mrs. Dump provided these since she did close the dump and she is so fiscally responsible! Again what took fifty years to build can be destroyed in a summer. Gee and to imagine just last year the band played at the Buckeye Invitional - key word being "invitational"! Hope you are all happy now.
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Quadzilla
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08-28-08 11:03 PM
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Oh Ylittlegirl, you are so confused. There are many Stags and the band director is not the Stag we are referring to. The band director Stag did not want a HS director hired...he was going to be the HS director and a full-time assistant was to be hired to take his previous position. This was the agreement when he decided to leave his position as full-time HS band director at Girard to come to LaBrae. He loved his job at Girard and had a great rapport with the students, boosters, staff and administration. He also had an outstanding program. It was a difficult decision for him to make to leave and come to LaBrae but Mr. E asked him to come and he knew how great the program at LaBrae was so he made the move. So, you are incorrect in stating that Mr. Stag is a follower and not a leader. He has always been a leader. Maybe you should work on some leadership skills yourself instead of following blindly those that have no knowledge of the situation!
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Yittlegirl
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08-28-08 10:51 PM
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Funny how Stags knows who was present, when he can't even be present at any of the Board Meetings. He is a follower and not a leader. He wanted a full time HS director so he could just keep following along for the ride.
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